Comments on: SimpleQuiz › Part XII: Breadcrumbs http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/ Handcrafted pixels & text from Salem, Massachusetts. Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:15:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: plagiats http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2137 plagiats Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:59:53 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2137 B !! A list makes sense here. B !! A list makes sense here.

]]> By: w!red http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2136 w!red Fri, 20 May 2005 01:40:02 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2136 I agree with TechGnome. Most if not all breadcrumb lists do not actually show you from whence you have come, they only really show you which 'folder' you are in. I suppose that with a dash of PHP and a session ID it may be possible to construct a more meaningful breadcrumb trail (or segment of said trail as TechGnome suggests) (?). As for the markup (and after having read this article) I would vote for a nested ordered or unordered list, but only because I have no real understanding of the correct usage of definition lists =P I agree with TechGnome. Most if not all breadcrumb lists do not actually show you from whence you have come, they only really show you which ‘folder’ you are in. I suppose that with a dash of PHP and a session ID it may be possible to construct a more meaningful breadcrumb trail (or segment of said trail as TechGnome suggests) (?).
As for the markup (and after having read this article) I would vote for a nested ordered or unordered list, but only because I have no real understanding of the correct usage of definition lists =P

]]> By: Bryan http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2135 Bryan Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:03:00 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2135 TechGnome -- why not use the browser's back button (and the associated list of previous pages' titles) for that? TechGnome — why not use the browser’s back button (and the associated list of previous pages’ titles) for that?

]]> By: TechGnome http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2134 TechGnome Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:45:15 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2134 Forgot to mention. With all this in mind, I would use an unordered list, probably displayed inline, no bullets (well, maybe) and some kind of textual arrow, like this "->". TG Forgot to mention. With all this in mind, I would use an unordered list, probably displayed inline, no bullets (well, maybe) and some kind of textual arrow, like this “->”.
TG

]]> By: TechGnome http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2133 TechGnome Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:43:57 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2133 Hmmm.... interesting discussion. I think before you can think about how to display breadcrumbs, you first need to decide WHAT the breadcrumbs are. That answer will(should) then define how the semantices should be markedup. Then and only then should you use CSS to pretty-fy it. First, breadcrumbs are not a you are here sign. I *know* where I am. I am on *this* page. It doesn't matter where this page is. What matters is how did I get here? That's what breadcrumbs were intended for. Did I come straight off of the home page? Did I click around, following links? It's like following the bouncing ball. If I start on the main page, click on a category, then a post, I should get this... Home > Category > Post Name. If I then click into January, I would expect to see this: Home > Category > Post Name > January. Now, depending on how many steps I want to track (5 seems like a good number), things can start to fall off the front of the list. There's no need to track EVERYWHERE I've been, but having the last 4 or 5 places I was would be real handy. Home > Category > Post Name > January > Jan 20 Category > Post Name > January > Jan 20 > Post Name Post Name > January > Jan 20 > Post Name > Home January > Jan 20 > Post Name > Home > Category It's a trail of where I've been. And it allows me to get back to some point where I was. <em>Breadcrumb navigation is commonly used as a method for showing the user where they are within the structure of a site — and giving them an easy way of getting back.</em> -- I think that's only half of it. Letting me know where I am in the structure of a site is part of the usability of a site, but it doesn't allow me to get back to where I might have been. A breadcrumb that does not make. The second second part of that statement says that I should be able to get back to where I was. Within the structure of the site, that is immaterial. I shouldn't care structuraly where I was. I just want to go there. So, I follow the breadcrumbs back two steps to a different part of the structure tree. The You Are Here (YAH) should update and show me my new location. That's my 2cents, take it or leave it. It's also jsut my opinion. TG Hmmm…. interesting discussion. I think before you can think about how to display breadcrumbs, you first need to decide WHAT the breadcrumbs are. That answer will(should) then define how the semantices should be markedup. Then and only then should you use CSS to pretty-fy it.
First, breadcrumbs are not a you are here sign. I *know* where I am. I am on *this* page. It doesn’t matter where this page is. What matters is how did I get here? That’s what breadcrumbs were intended for. Did I come straight off of the home page? Did I click around, following links? It’s like following the bouncing ball.
If I start on the main page, click on a category, then a post, I should get this… Home > Category > Post Name. If I then click into January, I would expect to see this: Home > Category > Post Name > January. Now, depending on how many steps I want to track (5 seems like a good number), things can start to fall off the front of the list. There’s no need to track EVERYWHERE I’ve been, but having the last 4 or 5 places I was would be real handy.
Home > Category > Post Name > January > Jan 20
Category > Post Name > January > Jan 20 > Post Name
Post Name > January > Jan 20 > Post Name > Home
January > Jan 20 > Post Name > Home > Category
It’s a trail of where I’ve been. And it allows me to get back to some point where I was.
Breadcrumb navigation is commonly used as a method for showing the user where they are within the structure of a site — and giving them an easy way of getting back. — I think that’s only half of it. Letting me know where I am in the structure of a site is part of the usability of a site, but it doesn’t allow me to get back to where I might have been. A breadcrumb that does not make.
The second second part of that statement says that I should be able to get back to where I was. Within the structure of the site, that is immaterial. I shouldn’t care structuraly where I was. I just want to go there. So, I follow the breadcrumbs back two steps to a different part of the structure tree. The You Are Here (YAH) should update and show me my new location.
That’s my 2cents, take it or leave it. It’s also jsut my opinion.
TG

]]> By: Chris McDougall http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2132 Chris McDougall Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:11:42 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2132 To me the foremost real world example of a series of bread crumbs in use is the common outline for term papers. Start with a thesis, map out the sections (usually using roman numerals), map out the subsections, the subsections within the subsections, etc. What have you got? A series of (ordered) nested lists, of course. Not only does an outline display hierarchy, but it also tells you where you are within the paper. However, I don't think it's really necessary to use an ordered list if there's nesting involved, especially since there's only one item per list, unlike a paper outline which usually has several listings. But it <em>can</em> be used. I'm not sure if a single ordered list would work the same way, semantically. Usually when I encounter a single list of items I see them as being within the same hierarchy, and as a series of steps within the hierarchy. "2" is not within "1." "2" comes after "1." So yes, despite the fact that A would be the easiest and use the smallest amount of code, I think the numerous suggestions for nested lists is the most semantically correct. To me the foremost real world example of a series of bread crumbs in use is the common outline for term papers. Start with a thesis, map out the sections (usually using roman numerals), map out the subsections, the subsections within the subsections, etc.
What have you got? A series of (ordered) nested lists, of course. Not only does an outline display hierarchy, but it also tells you where you are within the paper.
However, I don’t think it’s really necessary to use an ordered list if there’s nesting involved, especially since there’s only one item per list, unlike a paper outline which usually has several listings. But it can be used.
I’m not sure if a single ordered list would work the same way, semantically. Usually when I encounter a single list of items I see them as being within the same hierarchy, and as a series of steps within the hierarchy. “2″ is not within “1.” “2″ comes after “1.”
So yes, despite the fact that A would be the easiest and use the smallest amount of code, I think the numerous suggestions for nested lists is the most semantically correct.

]]> By: Michael Smith http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2131 Michael Smith Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:38:36 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2131 I'm with <a href="http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/02/04/sqxii.html#comment60" rel="nofollow">Sean Ho</a> on this. Ordered-list with a H* as the label. I particularly like the <code><em></code> around the last item to indicate the current location. I’m with Sean Ho on this. Ordered-list with a H* as the label. I particularly like the <em> around the last item to indicate the current location.

]]> By: mini-d http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2130 mini-d Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:32:13 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2130 I vote for none of them. I think semantical markupt should be France's example. But lineal one is not bad, it's sequencial like say, option 1, option 2. Mine is: option → option → last. I vote for none of them. I think semantical markupt should be France’s example. But lineal one is not bad, it’s sequencial like say, option 1, option 2.
Mine is: option → option → last.

]]> By: David House http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2129 David House Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:56:13 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2129 It's a WCAG Priority 3 checkpoint that links shouldn't be seperated by only whitespace, 10.5 Until user agents (including assistive technologies) render adjacent links distinctly, include non-link, printable characters (surrounded by spaces) between adjacent links. [<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html" rel="nofollow">Quote Source</a>], so that rules A out unless you take a route like <a href="http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/02/04/sqxii.html#comment67" rel="nofollow">Megatron suggested</a>. My view would be to nested ordered lists. If you think about it, Home -> Sections -> XML implies that you're in the XML section, within the Sections section, from the home page. <a href="http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/02/04/sqxii.html#comment66" rel="nofollow">Dave Calam</a>, they <em>are</em> children of each other, those pages are in folders which are nested in each other on the server. It’s a WCAG Priority 3 checkpoint that links shouldn’t be seperated by only whitespace, 10.5 Until user agents (including assistive technologies) render adjacent links distinctly, include non-link, printable characters (surrounded by spaces) between adjacent links. [Quote Source], so that rules A out unless you take a route like Megatron suggested.
My view would be to nested ordered lists. If you think about it, Home -> Sections -> XML implies that you’re in the XML section, within the Sections section, from the home page. Dave Calam, they are children of each other, those pages are in folders which are nested in each other on the server.

]]> By: Megatron http://simplebits.com/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2128 Megatron Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:46:52 +0000 http://www.simplebits.com/wp/notebook/2004/02/04/sqxii/#comment-2128 I'm a hack at web design, so take all this with a grain of salt...<p>I prefer "A". I see the user's current location in your site as more sequential than hierarchal. Lists are a bad fit.<p>Additionally, lists to me should contain content related to the current document, not choices the user has already made. <p>Personally, I'd try to style option "A" somehow to make it prettier, maybe with → like somebody suggested. That would c omplete the idea of a "sequence".</p></p></p> I’m a hack at web design, so take all this with a grain of salt…

I prefer “A”. I see the user’s current location in your site as more sequential than hierarchal. Lists are a bad fit.

Additionally, lists to me should contain content related to the current document, not choices the user has already made.

Personally, I’d try to style option “A” somehow to make it prettier, maybe with → like somebody suggested. That would c omplete the idea of a “sequence”.

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