Comments on: SimpleQuiz › Part III: Heading and List

By: Egor Kloos

Egor Kloos — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 05:15:41 +0000

Yes it’s A. Why? Well, just scroll up.
This example also shows that understanding the content and it’s context can be very important. Let’s say that the answer ought to be B, because the text for the DT was chosen carelessly. Should we just follow the actual text or have the title rewritten to fit it’s context? It’s obvious that the title ought to be fixed because if we are using this in a truly semantic driven website the content could be miss-assigned. The semantics could breakdown, which would be bad. Semantic systems need to be accurate for them to be reliable otherwise users won’t trust the website. Accuracy is key to being useful even more so than with syntactic websites.
Writing HTML pages doesn’t seem so easy any more.

By: Chris

Chris — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 04:52:49 +0000

I find besh’s example intriguing. I may now have to tinker. :-)
I would normally use an unordered list for the main menu.



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However, a definition list makes more sense to me if I wanted to display the description of each main menu item on the page (like a submenu bar or a label box) instead of just adding the title attribute to the main menu link tags.





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I’d probably leave the title attributes in the links.

By: Bob Easton

Bob Easton — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:52:27 +0000

A is more semantically correct as many have already said. It also has higher weight or value for devices other than computer screens. Screen reader programs all have hot keys for reading headings and normal lists, and would therefore make A more accessible than B.
For “web,” yes there is logic to selecting which heading to use. Proponents of structured markup (derived from the SGML school of thought) use headings hierarchically, like an outline. So, use them in ascending order. Then style them to look like what you desire. That order is, again, an important accessibility consideration.

By: James

James — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:48:42 +0000

I recently rewrote the HTML of Bungie.net for a little fun and made some probably despicable decisions regarding definition lists. I am a relative newcomer to the web design world and have been coding tableless XHTML/CSS exclusively since I became serious about it. My lack of experience has been a mixed blessing, though. On the one hand I am learning new techniques at a remarkable rate and don't have the time to establish bad habits. But, from the other perspective, I tend to make quite a few laughable errors. Usually after I gain an understanding of proper XHTML and CSS usage from reading the experts' blogs, my techniques are set straight. Help me sort this one out :) Returning to to dl's, I'd be interested to know how much of my usage was inappropriate at the above link. I realise now that the poll should be in a table as it is tabular, but should the change log, events, inside and some of the links be marked up as h elements followed by paragraphs and unordered lists as per option A above? Also, I too was confused by hn, maybe you should label it h#?

By: Jai

Jai — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:29:24 +0000

Hmmm… what if Robots, Monkeys, Etc. are the names of a list of stuff? I mean, what if some guy has 4 lists of stuff, and he named them Robots, Monkey, etc… Then those things would be definitions of a list of stuff. That’s twisted, but ture… But in general, A is correct.

By: Stefan Walter

Stefan Walter — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:17:33 +0000

I would prefer A – for a simple list of things I don’ see the point why I should use a definition list.
But this question is way more controversal than the other questions :) So this might end up in a discussion of personal taste – as always the discussion on the questions is even more interesting than the question, I can’t wait to hear more opinions on this (and of course I can’t wait for the next question in the quiz :) )

By: Minz Meyer

Minz Meyer — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:09:08 +0000

hmmmm….what about extending the DTD?
List of stuff Robots Monkeys
okay, maybe too far away ;)

By: besh

besh — Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:21:43 +0000

A is right.
This is definition list:

Ygg'drasil: The tree of the universe, a huge ash which holds an important place in Scandinavian mythology

That’s how I understand the specification.
…and this could work as well:

Lister: What can I do?
Holly: You've gotta deal with your grief, man. Breakup is very much like a bereavement: it's usually followed by a cremation and some sandwiches.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:10:34 +0000

Dan – Thanks for the suggestion, I’ve just made that (very original) change. ;-)

By: Dan R.

Dan R. — Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:02:48 +0000

A is of course the best method, for all the reasons listed above (I just wish one of these times I’ll see the question before anyone else does — it’s tough to seem like I have any original ideas with all these great thoughts posted before mine ;-)
One thing that will make the presentation of the question clearer is italicizing the “n”:
n>A List of Stuffn>
See? I can contribute something original…